Last night I held my very first book club since being married to Joel. An array of young women attended, each coming from unique backgrounds and theological disciplines. We discussed A Year Of Biblical Womanhood, written by Rachel Held Evans, an active blogger and liberal feminist.
The discussion proved interesting, to say the least. I, and a couple others, were hell bent on discussing the roles of women in ministry, specifically from the pulpit.
Ironically, most of the women agreed that an educated, Christ-centered woman ought to have the freedom to preach to a congregation, and lead them in the same way a traditional male pastor would.
I wanted to agree with them. Hailing from a long line of ultra feminists, I do believe in the equality of women, especially in the church.
I asked my friends what their biblical reasoning was for women to be in leadership, and they had none. They couldn’t find one biblical proof that approved women to lead a cohort or congregation as a man would. In fact, when I read them the countless verses that disapproved of women assuming leadership, they scoffed at the verses and claimed they weren’t culturally relevant.
I suppose, in the end, the matter isn’t life or death. Perhaps they are right, perhaps my views are archaic and sexist, and if Jesus were to come today he would chastise me for being like the Pharisees, and letting the law dictate my life instead of the enriching Holy Spirit.
But for now, in January of 2013, I am not ready to abandon biblical principles that are so clearly spelled out and beautifully in place for reasons I may not fully understand. The dangers of female leadership are countless, as are the dangers for males, and as of right now I am not sure women are ready to humbly and meekly lead without having anything to prove.
Additionally I cannot help but be concerned that my dear sisters do not take scripture seriously. A few of them had not even heard the verses concerning female leadership, which showed me they had not done much research but fully believed the word of our pastors…who, by the way, are a man and a woman.
I suppose one day I will feel comfortable silencing Paul’s incredibly loud voice that often rings in my head; but for now, his potent words will ring onward.
The O.C. Chronicles
When you said, “I am not ready to abandon biblical principles that are so clearly spelled out and beautifully in place for reasons I may not fully understand,” I completely agree. There isn’t a single verse saying it’s okay for a woman to teach in the church. I would rather stick to the Word of God than fight for “cultural rights.” As a fellow sister in Christ, I say a big amen to this post!
Thank you for visiting, Andrea! I am thankful to have a fellow sister who feels similarly regarding such a controversial issue
“I asked my friends what their biblical reasoning was for women to be in leadership, and they had none…” – I agree that this a problem!! Certainly they should have had some solid reasons to share. “The dangers of female leadership are countless, as are the dangers for males, and as of right now I am not sure women are ready to humbly and meekly lead without having anything to prove.” – I agree here too! Although I believe women should have full freedom to serve in the church, I think most women (in the USA at least) are not ready. They are not adequately trained in the Scriptures. And we should not be seeking to put women in leadership just for the sake of it. Leadership is a serious responsibility that should not be taken lightly.
There are solid biblical reasons for giving women full freedom to serve in the church. I have a number of exegetical blog posts on the issue. Here is one: http://lightenough.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/what-women-can-and-cannot-do-relative-to-teaching-the-bible/ In another series of 3 posts, I specifically address Paul’s statements on women. Since you refer to Paul, you may find those interesting. Viewed in context, I see Paul as a first century feminist. A couple of his statements have sadly been taken out of context, and imposed on other verses. I am an evangelical Christian that generally considers herself “conservative” by the way. I am not trying to be disagreeable. I myself years ago did not approve of women in ministry either, but my opinions completely changed mainly due to intense study of the Scriptures. After my posts, you can find an extensive bibliography of books on this issue – all by Bible believing evangelical Christians.
I hope these thoughts don’t come across the wrong way. As I do agree with some of the concerns you share in this post. But I do feel there are biblical reasons to support women in ministry. And I only share it in a “fyi” type of way.
And thanks for liking my recent post! Hope you don’t regret it (haha) after this comment. : )
Thank you so much Laura! Please don’t feel bad…I am quite open to others’ ideas. I also believe that Paul was a feminist, and that perhaps if he were here today he would write a different letter with different instructions. It is hard for me to “excuse” the language of the Bible, even after reading it in “context”. Ironically my husband is a total advocate of women in ministry, and his views are very similar to the one presented on the link that you gave me. I really appreciate your feedback
Thanks for your grace Bethany! I was just checking out your blog a little more. I read obsessively and write with a pen too! : )
Bethany, thank you for your kind comments on my blog, which, by the way, led me to your blog here. I wish I had time to dialogue more about the issue you raise; It is a VERY important one in our culture. I must say that I admire your courage not only in being open about your stance, but also about the very stance itself. It is surely not a popular one, and of course the popularity of a tenet must never be made the litmus test of its veracity. I must also say that I have a VERY high regard for women as women. I am compelled by Scripture and by God’s holy indwelling Spirit to recognize and affirm the high value of women. Like you, however, I do have some “reservations” about the level of leadership that would “typically” be appropriate for women as a general rule (intentional redundancy). I cannot help but “feel” (yet not without rational, exegetical grounding) that the rationale for the “general rule” has to do with the way God has “wired” maleness and femaleness. Gender is an essential constituent, not an “add-on” package. God “wired” females to be fulfilled by the achievement of certain aspirations, and He “wired” males to be fulfilled by the fulfillment of other kinds of aspirations. The “exceptions” to the rule are just that, exceptions, and I believe they can be traced to the influence of culture, rather than to inherent native instinct. I further believe that the Bible teaches a sound rationale for a functional hierarchy within the family unit. God designed it to operate in a beautiful, interdependent way. The problem is that humans have mistakenly confused functional hierarchy with ontological inferiority. I do believe that there is biblical warrant for women exercising a variety of leadership functions in the church. I am less comfortable with a female occupying the hierarchical top of a given church or para-church organization (although I see no specific Scriptural mandate against that–when rightly interpreted). The Bible does narrate (“commend,” MAY saying too much) exceptions to the rule. To my mind the more important context for the functional hierarchy is in the home, because that is the microcosm where children learn through modeling how to relate to both superordinates and subordinates. Through the “headship” of their father God provides children a model of how to administrate a delegated, functional authority; specifically, through the father’s meek, loving self-sacrifice for the benefit of his wife and family that consistently (and sometimes at great personal loss) prioritizes their welfare above his. Likewise, from their mother God intends children to learn how to respond to authority; namely, through the mother’s respectful, voluntary laying aside of her right to autonomy, willingly accepting the decisions of her husband. I hasten to conclude with three final thoughts: (1) a primary responsibility of both husband and wife is to mutually affirm and support the other’s functional “headship” over their children; (2) only a husband with the I.Q. of a poached egg would regard the wisdom and advice of his ontologically equal wife as unworthy of serious heed!! and (3) Any husband who opts for a dictatorial, coercive, and abusive mode of “headship” simply cannot count himself among the followers of Christ; he has long since ceased to march to the beat of our Divine “Drummer.” Jesus sternly warned his disciples about abusing the authority he had delegated to them: “The kings of the Gentiles lord authority over them . . . . NOT SO WITH YOU!!” (Luke 22:25). I welcome further dialogue, but I pray responders will forgive me for any delay in my response because I am buried in “to do’s” . . . that my wife has dictatorially demanded that I do!! ; ) ["Physician, heal thyself!!]
Bethany, thank you for your kind comments on my blog, which, by the way, led me to your blog here. I wish I had time to dialogue more about the issue you raise; It is a VERY important one in our culture.
I must say that I admire your courage not only in being open about your stance, but also about the very stance itself. It is surely not a popular one, and of course the popularity of a tenet must never be made the litmus test of its veracity. I must also say that I have a VERY high regard for women as women. I am compelled by Scripture and by God’s holy indwelling Spirit to recognize and affirm the high value of women. Like you, however, I do have some “reservations” about the level of leadership that would “typically” be appropriate for women as a general rule (intentional redundancy).
I cannot help but “feel” (yet not without rational, exegetical grounding) that the rationale for the “general rule” has to do with the way God has “wired” maleness and femaleness. Gender is an essential constituent, not an “add-on” package. God “wired” females to be fulfilled by the achievement of certain aspirations, and He “wired” males to be fulfilled by the fulfillment of other kinds of aspirations. The “exceptions” to the rule are just that, exceptions, and I believe they can be traced to the influence of culture, rather than to inherent native instinct.
I further believe that the Bible teaches a sound rationale for a functional hierarchy within the family unit. God designed it to operate in a beautiful, interdependent way. The problem is that humans have mistakenly confused functional hierarchy with ontological inferiority. I do believe that there is biblical warrant for women exercising a variety of leadership functions in the church. I am less comfortable with a female occupying the hierarchical top of a given church or para-church organization (although I see no specific Scriptural mandate against that–when rightly interpreted). The Bible does narrate (“commend,” MAY be saying too much) exceptions to the rule.
To my mind the more important context for the functional hierarchy is in the home, because that is the microcosm where children learn through modeling how to relate to both superordinates and subordinates. Through the “headship” of their father God provides children a model of how to administrate a delegated, functional authority; specifically, through the father’s meek, loving self-sacrifice for the benefit of his wife and family that consistently (and sometimes at great personal loss) prioritizes their welfare above his. Likewise, from their mother God intends children to learn how to respond to authority; namely, through the mother’s respectful, voluntary laying aside of her right to autonomy, willingly accepting the decisions of her husband. I hasten to conclude with three final thoughts: (1) a primary responsibility of both husband and wife is to mutually affirm and support the other’s functional “headship” over their children; (2) only a husband with the I.Q. of a poached egg would regard the wisdom and advice of his ontologically equal wife as unworthy of serious heed!! and (3) Any husband who opts for a dictatorial, coercive, and abusive mode of “headship” simply cannot count himself among the followers of Christ; he has long since ceased to march to the beat of our Divine “Drummer.” Jesus sternly warned his disciples about abusing the authority he had delegated to them: “The kings of the Gentiles lord authority over them . . . . NOT SO WITH YOU!!” (Luke 22:25). I welcome further dialogue, but I pray responders will forgive me for any delay in my response because I am buried in “to do’s” . . . that my wife has dictatorially demanded that I do!! ; ) ["Physician, heal thyself!!]
Bethany, I want to add that I appreciate the spirit you display in your post on women in ministry. Your obvious openminded posture and concern for taking the Bible seriously and properly is refreshing. This is not an easy issue. What seems clear to me is that we have a whole lot of people today who do not have a whole lot of respect for authority–at any level. I cannot help but wonder whether in abandoning a functionally hierarchical model of the home we have not only set our children up for marital strife, but also hindered them from properly understanding how humans relate to God’s authority. . . .
Unfortunately, many of us (men and women alike) who believe in Jesus, don’t know the entirety of His inspired Word, and because of this, we disagree with some of the things He inspired when presented with it. When we have the full revelation of God in our hearts, we have a better understanding of His heart. Many women would like to overlook the fact that Eve was created second, and that knowing she was “weaker” than Adam, in the sense that emotionally, she would be the easier to sway, she was the first to take a bite of the forbidden fruit, and many do not understand their roles as women because again, they have yet to fully read the Word. God lays out the man’s role. He is the Head of the woman, the protector, the leader. The woman, is equally as important, she is the support, the neck if you would. When both operate in their designated roles, the result is a holy union and one that exemplifies our relationship to Christ as the head of the Church.
Betterthanedward, I do believe that general physical characteristics reflect part of the functional design for men and women. Leaving aside explanations for aberrations from the norm (300-pound women shot-putters and 90-pound weakling men–no disparagement intended, simply pointing out physical characteristics), males surely are the physically stronger of the genders. That this works quite well if males are designed for “protective” instincts seems very reasonable. That males have abused this “gift” over the course of human history does not undercut the notion that God intended them/us to use that strength in other-centered, loving ways. But “strength” is not the supreme human characteristic value. Nurturing, organizing, teamwork (as opposed to competition) are every bit as necessary and valuable as strength. [And strength difference is not the only characteristic of the human anatomy that seems to comport with a functionally hierarchical relationship between the genders.] So, I am in general agreement with most of what you said (much more importantly, I believe the Scriptures are in agreement), but I am concerned that neither of the genders abuses its respective gifts.
For sure. And there are men of God who don’t abuse it, and there are women who don’t abuse their gifts, but there’s a lot of false prophets. And we all still struggle with sin, ultimately it’s heart thing. If one’s heart is surrendered to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, they wouldn’t abuse their gifts, but purpose to love and serve others.
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Thank you for such a thoughtful, well-approached response to my post! I truly appreciate the feedback and your opinions. I also have a very high opinion regarding women, and am searching for the correct interpretation of Scripture. There are so many views, so many reasons, and so many arguments, it can be difficult to navigate the waters of theological discussion.
I could not possibly agree more with your assessment. I certainly do not claim to have fully resolved the issue, even in my own mind. I want to fully affirm (as did Jesus, and as do all NT writings) the equality and value of every human being no matter which gender, no matter what race, no matter what physical characteristics (attractive, homely, or flat out ugly), no matter what economic level, no matter what skill sets, etc., etc., and etc. That is a powerful truth of Scripture. Yet, to me this “wiring” idea, this “design” model seems to make a great deal of sense. We tend to view leaders as more valuable than followers; I think Jesus puts the matter in proper alignment: “From the one to whom much has been given shall much be required”–a sobering assessment indeed for any who fancy themselves superior because of their leadership “position.” If anything, those who have made maximum use of the talents they have been given are of the greatest “value” in the kingdom of God. Bethany, thank you for “liking” my other post, and thank God that He used that to bring about this important discussion. God’s best to you and yours!
I struggle with it too! But with your attitude towards the subject, I would have no problem listening to you teach from the pulpit. Someone that is more worried about the “right” of a woman to be there however I would just as soon follow Paul’s direction to silence.
Enjoyed the blog!
Dave
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I like what you said about how you don’t think women are ready to meekly lead without having anything to prove. I think leading a group just to show people you can is definitely the wrong motivation.
I love the model in the book of Esther, when the king asks: “What is your request? Anything up to half the kingdom” – she could have up to half, but wasn’t allowed to be the dominant one, and I like that Mordecai made sure what the king was doing was explained to her (Esther 4:8); she wasn’t just seen as a nobody.
I think women definitely have roles to play; look at Priscilla and her husband – how they explained about the Holy Spirit to Apollos (Acts 18:26), but because Paul talks about how he doesn’t permit women to teach or take authority over a man, I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable giving advice to a man as his pastor. I know there are verses in Titus though about older women teaching younger women, so I really do think it’s important for us to minister in that way. I think women in ministry and women in leadership are 2 different things.
Bethany, I am so glad you visited my blog, and I read a few of yours and I had to comment on this topic, as it is very dear to my heart. I can only share my experience with you and the prompting of the Holy Spirit in my own life, as proof, not to mention those Scripture you read. I want to share, as briefly as possible, my story, with you. I have been a woman in ministry my entire adult life. I have served in the postions of youth minister, music minister, children’s minister. I have directed choirs, taught home Bible Study cell groups, Sunday School, and women’s ministry. I have been ordained as an elder in a church and served in that office for two years, even preaching during the time we needed a pastor. I have been a leader in my past two marriages, financially, spiritually, and in other ways. I have said all of this to say, God began working on my beliefs as I studied more and more of His Word. I began asking Him to show me His will, my thoughts and beliefs became grounded in God’s Word and I grew to a place I never dreamed (and still have a LONG way to go.) To shorten this 21 year journey, my second husband left because of the life I lived, dedicated to Christ. He couldn’t accept that I loved God more than I loved him. I prayed that God would send a man into my life who would be a Godly leader, who believed and lived what God’s Word says, and who would love God above all else. In healing from this separation, I stayed in God’s Word more and more and I began cleaning out my “collections” of things I had (the only thing that controlled me, in my home, for so long was my stuff.) I realized I didn’t need those “things”. At this time, I was still teaching a home Bible Study cell group, which had men, including deacons, attending.
God sent a wonderful man into my life and within the first week of meeting him and sharing some of our thoughts and beliefs, he challenged me as to why I was teaching deacons. I didn’t have an answer, other than, they have encouraged me to continue, but we talked and I began praying about it, and spoke with one of the deacons and he agreed to teach the study and understood my position.
God did such a work in my life. I now see, through much experience and scripture, that a woman has no place in a leadership position. I am now happily married to a wonderful Godly man, who leads our home. I cannot tell you the freedom I feel now that I am no longer “in the lead.” I know it sounds ironic, but there truly is freedom in submission. I retired from 20 years in the classroom, in May, and now homeschool. My family (I have four step-children) is the ministry God has for me at this moment. I also help with women’s ministry and volunteer in a small Christian Church School. I am happier in my life with Christ than I have ever been and I am growing more and more in Him every day.
I apologize for any unclear areas in my comment, as I am not feeling well today, but if you have any question or need clarity, please let me know. I did want to tell you how refreshing it was to read your post.
Thank you,
Lori
Thanks for liking my post “Tertullian on Prayer.” As I read this I shared your angst and confusion about this issue. As a Roman Catholic man, I too have often wondered “why no women priests?” We need priests, don’t we? But I guess it’s just not an issue of what does not bother me personally. I have come to at least understand the church’s position on women in the priesthood. In addition to scripture, it’s strongly rooted in church tradition and the works of the early church fathers. Pope John Paul II’s position was that the church itself has no power to ordain women. I did like his letter to women, which might offer Catholic women some comfort in their role, which is indispensable: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_29061995_women_en.html.
Catholic women have indeed contributed much. Mother Teresa preached to the entire world through her actions of love and charity. Since 1970 the church has named four women “Doctors” of the church. Women have been some of our greatest saints and among those I most read and admire.
Wow thank you so much for this insight! I will definitely read that article, and I agree that women have made such an impact!
I was led to your blog after seeing that you liked mine (thanks). Just out of curiosity, in the same book, Paul says that women should also where head coverings. Is this something that you feel is necessary as well?
No not at all. When you look at the context of the passage these women were taking their head coverings off, which made them appear like prostitutes to outsiders. This is why Paul commanded them to keep their head coverings on, so as not to dishonor their husbands and give the wrong impression to other Christian men. I would equate this to immodesty in the church today, and that we are always to show modesty and respect to our brothers and sisters in Christ.
Of course, this is simply my interpretation of the text. N.T. Wright gives a very good argument advocating how these passages were culturally relevant for the time, and not applicable to today’s culture. After doing my own research, I just couldn’t find a good enough argument (based on the BIBLE solely) for women being pastors over a congregation of men.